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Notes for this theme

Interaction with the apostles

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GRM 70.6

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

«Master, You mentioned Simon Peter. And that reminded me of something I should have told You immediately, but the joy of listening to You made me forget about it. When we went back to Capernaum after Pentecost, we found the usual amount of money from that unknown person. The boy had taken it to my mother. I gave it to Peter, and he handed it back to me, saying I should use some of it on my way back and in my stay at Doco and I should bring You the rest, for whatever need of Yours… because also Peter thought this place might not be comfortable… but You say it is… I took only two coins for two poor people I met near Ephraim. For the rest, I lived with what my mother had given me and what I was given by some good people to whom I preached Your Name. Here is the purse.»

«We will give the money to the poor tomorrow. So Judas also will be acquainted with our custom.»

«Has Your cousin come? How was he so quick? He was at Nazareth and he did not tell me he was leaving…»

«No. Judas is the new disciple. He comes from Kerioth. But you saw him at Passover, here, the evening I cured Simon. He was with Thomas.»

«Ah! It’s him?» John is a little perplexed.

«Yes, it is he.»

GRM 70.8-9

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

70.8 Then Jesus says:

«Another comparison between My John and another disciple. A comparison that makes the figure of My beloved disciple clearer and clearer.

He is the one who divests himself also of his own way of thinking and judging, in order to be “the disciple”. He is the one who gives himself without wishing to withhold even a particle of himself, as his self was before becoming a disciple. Judas is the one who does not want to divest himself of himself. His donation is therefore unreal. He carries with himself his ego diseased with pride, sensuality and greed. He maintains his way of thinking. And he thus counteracts the effect of the donation and of Grace.

Judas: the first of all the apostles who failed. And they are so many! John: the first of those who become victims out of love for Me. And you are one of them.

My Mother and I are the sublime Victims. It is difficult to reach us, in fact it is impossible, because our sacrifice was of total bitterness. But My John! He is the victim that all My lovers can imitate: virgins, martyrs, confessors, evangelisers, servants of God and of the Mother of God, devoted to activity or contemplation: he is an example for everyone. He is the one who loves.

Note their different ways of reasoning. Judas investigates, quibbles, is obstinate, even when he pretends to give in, he still has mental reservations. John feels he is nothing, he accepts everything, he does not ask for reasons, he is satisfied with making Me happy. That is the example.

70.9 And did you not feel completely peaceful before his simple dear love? Oh! My John! And My little John, whom I want to be more and more like My beloved. Accept everything, always saying as the apostle: “Everything You do, is well done, Master”, in order to deserve to always hear Me say to you: “You are My loving peace”. I need comfort as well, Mary. Give Me it. My Heart for your rest.»

Detail

Dictation in connection with EMV 70.1-6

GRM 71.1-2

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

71.1 I see Jesus with Judas Iscariot walking up and down near one of the gates of the Temple enclosure.

«Are You sure he will come?» asks Judas.

«I am certain. He was leaving Bethany at dawn and at Gethsemane he was to meet My first disciple…»

There is a pause, then Jesus stops and stares at Judas. He is standing in front of him. He studies him. He then places a hand on his shoulder and asks: «Why, Judas, do you not tell Me your thoughts?»

«Which thoughts? I have no special thought, Master, at the present moment. I ask You even too many questions. You certainly cannot complain of my silence.»

«You ask Me many questions and You give Me many details on the town and its inhabitants. But you do not unburden yourself to Me. What do you think it matters to Me what you tell Me about the wealth of people and the members of this or that family? I am not an idler who has come here to while away the time. You know why I have come. And you may well realise that I am concerned with being the Master of My disciples, as the most important thing. I therefore want sincerity and trust from them.

71.2 Was your father fond of you, Judas?»

«He was very fond of me. He was proud of me. When I went back home from school, and even later, when I went back to Kerioth from Jerusalem, he wanted me to tell him everything. He took an interest in everything I did and he would rejoice if they were good things, he would comfort me if they were not so good, if – sometimes, You know, we all make mistakes – if I had made a mistake and had been blamed for it, he would show me the fairness of the reproach I had received, or the injustice of my action. But he did it so gently… he seemed like an older brother. He always ended by saying: “I am saying this because I want my Judas to be just. I want to be blessed through my son”. My father…»

Jesus, Who has been carefully studying His disciple all the time, truly moved at the evocation of his father, says: «Now, Judas, be sure of what I am going to tell you. Nothing will make your father so happy, as your being a faithful disciple. Your father, who brought you up as you said, must have been a just man and his soul will rejoice, where he is awaiting the light, seeing that you are My disciple. But in order to be such, you must say to yourself: “I have found my lost father, the father who was like an older brother to me, I have found him in my Jesus, and I will tell Him everything, as I used to tell my beloved father, over whose death I am still mourning, that I may receive from Him guidance, blessings or a kind reproach”. May God grant it, and above all may you behave so that Jesus will always say to you: “You are good. I bless you”.»

«Oh! yes, Jesus! If You love me so much, I will strive to be good, as You want and my father wanted me to be. And my mother will no longer have an aching pain in her heart. She used to say: “You have no guide now, my son, and you still need one so much”. When she knows that I have You!»

«I will love you as no other man could possibly love you, I will love you so much, I do love you. Do not disappoint Me.»

«No, Master, I will not. I was full of conflicts. Envy, jealousy, eagerness to excel, sensuality, everything clashed in me against the voice of my conscience. Even quite recently, see? You caused me to suffer. That is: no, not You. It was my wicked nature… I thought I was Your first disciple… and, now You have just told me that You already have one.»

«You saw him yourself. Do you not remember that at Passover I was in the Temple with many Galileans?»

«I thought they were friends… I thought I was the first one to be chosen for such destiny, and that I was therefore the dearest.»

«There are no distinctions in My heart between the first and the last. If the first one should err and the last one were a holy man, then there would be a distinction in the eyes of God. But I will love just the same: I will love the holy living man with a blissful love, and the sinner with a suffering love.»

GRM 71.3-4

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

But here is John coming with Simon. John, My first disciple, Simon, the one of whom I spoke to you two days ago. You have already seen Simon and John. One was ill…»

«Ah! The leper! I remember. Is he already Your disciple?»

«Since the following day.»

«And why did I have to wait so long?»

«Judas?!»

«You are right. Forgive me.»

John has seen the Master, and he points Him out to Simon. They make haste. John and the Master kiss each other. Simon, instead, throws himself at Jesus’ feet and kisses them, exclaiming: «Glory to my Saviour! Bless Your servant that his actions may be holy in the eyes of God and that I may glorify Him and bless Him for giving You to me.»

Jesus places His hand on Simon’s head: «Yes, I bless you to thank you for your work. Get up, Simon. This is John, and this is Simon: here is My last disciple. He also wants to follow the Truth. He is therefore a brother for you all.»

They greet each other: the two Judaeans inquisitively, John heartily.

«Are you tired, Simon?» asks Jesus.

«No, Master. With my health I have recovered a vitality I never felt before.»

«And I know you make good use of it. I have spoken to many people and they all told Me that you have already instructed them about the Messiah.»

Simon smiles happily. «Also last night I spoke of You to one who is an honest Israelite. I hope You will meet him one day. I would like to take You to him.»

«That is quite possible.»

Judas joins in the conversation: «Master, You promised to come with me, in Judaea.»

«And I will. Simon will continue to teach the people on My coming. The time is short, My dear friends, and the people are so many.

71.4

I will now go with Simon. You two will come and meet Me this evening on the road to the Mount of Olives and we will give money to the poor. Go now.»

When Jesus is alone with Simon, He asks him: «Is that person in Bethany a true Israelite?»

«He is a true Israelite. His ideas are the prevailing ones, but he is really longing for the Messiah. And when I said to him: “He is now among us”, he replied at once: “I am blessed because I am living this hour”.»

«We shall go to him one day and take our blessing to his house. Have you seen the new disciple?»

«I have. He is young and seems intelligent.»

«Yes, he is. Since you are a Judaean, You will bear more with him than the others will, because of his ideas.»

«Is that a desire, or an order?»

«A kind order. You have suffered and You can be more indulgent. Sorrow teaches many things.»

«If You give me an order, I will be totally indulgent to him.»

«Yes. Be so. Perhaps Peter, and he may not be the only one, will be somewhat upset seeing how I take care and worry about this disciple. But one day, they will understand… The more one is deformed, the more assistance one needs. The others… oh! the others form properly, also by themselves, by simple contact. I do not want to do everything by Myself. I want the will of man and the help of other people to form a man. I ask you to help Me… and I am grateful for the help.»

«Master, do You think he will be disappointing You?»

«No. But he is young and was brought up in Jerusalem.»

«Oh! near You he will amend all the vices of that town… I am sure. I was already old and hardened by bitter hatred, and yet I have changed completely after seeing You…»

Jesus whispers: «So be it!» Then in a loud voice: «Let us go to the Temple. I will evangelise the people.»

And the vision ends.

Detail

Jesus is with Judas, and Simon the Zealot and John join him.

GRM 71.3-4

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

John has seen the Master, and he points Him out to Simon. They make haste. John and the Master kiss each other. Simon, instead, throws himself at Jesus’ feet and kisses them, exclaiming: «Glory to my Saviour! Bless Your servant that his actions may be holy in the eyes of God and that I may glorify Him and bless Him for giving You to me.»

Jesus places His hand on Simon’s head: «Yes, I bless you to thank you for your work. Get up, Simon. This is John, and this is Simon: here is My last disciple. He also wants to follow the Truth. He is therefore a brother for you all.»

They greet each other: the two Judaeans inquisitively, John heartily.

«Are you tired, Simon?» asks Jesus.

«No, Master. With my health I have recovered a vitality I never felt before.»

«And I know you make good use of it. I have spoken to many people and they all told Me that you have already instructed them about the Messiah.»

Simon smiles happily. «Also last night I spoke of You to one who is an honest Israelite. I hope You will meet him one day. I would like to take You to him.»

«That is quite possible.»

Judas joins in the conversation: «Master, You promised to come with me, in Judaea.»

«And I will. Simon will continue to teach the people on My coming. The time is short, My dear friends, and the people are so many.

71.4 I will now go with Simon. You two will come and meet Me this evening on the road to the Mount of Olives and we will give money to the poor. Go now.»

Detail

Jesus is with Judas, and Simon the Zealot and John join him.

GRM 71.4

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

«Have you seen the new disciple?»

«I have. He is young and seems intelligent.»

«Yes, he is. Since you are a Judaean, You will bear more with him than the others will, because of his ideas.»

«Is that a desire, or an order?»

«A kind order. You have suffered and You can be more indulgent. Sorrow teaches many things.»

«If You give me an order, I will be totally indulgent to him.»

«Yes. Be so. Perhaps Peter, and he may not be the only one, will be somewhat upset seeing how I take care and worry about this disciple. But one day, they will understand… The more one is deformed, the more assistance one needs. The others… oh! the others form properly, also by themselves, by simple contact. I do not want to do everything by Myself. I want the will of man and the help of other people to form a man. I ask you to help Me… and I am grateful for the help.»

«Master, do You think he will be disappointing You?»

«No. But he is young and was brought up in Jerusalem.»

«Oh! near You he will amend all the vices of that town… I am sure. I was already old and hardened by bitter hatred, and yet I have changed completely after seeing You…»

Jesus whispers: «So be it!» Then in a loud voice: «Let us go to the Temple. I will evangelise the people.»

And the vision ends.

Detail

Jesus talks to Simon the Zealot about Judas and Simon Peter.

GRM 72.1-6

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

72.1 I see, early in the morning, Jesus, Who at the same Gate meets His disciples Simon and Judas. John is already with Jesus. And I hear Him say: «My friends, I ask you to come with Me through Judaea. If it is not too much for you, particularly for you, Simon.»

«Why, Master?»

«It is hard to walk on the Judaean mountains… and perhaps it will be even more painful for you to meet someone who harmed you.»

«As far as the road is concerned, I wish to assure You, once again, that after You healed me, I feel stronger than a young man and no work is heavy for me, also because it is done for You, and now, with You. With regards to meeting people who harmed me, there is no harsh resentment or feeling in Simon’s heart, since he became Yours. Hatred has gone together with the scales of the disease. And believe me, I cannot tell You whether You worked a greater miracle in healing my corroded flesh or my soul consumed by hatred. I do not think I am wrong in saying the latter miracle was the greater. A wound of the soul heals less easily… and You healed me in one second. That is a miracle. Because one does not recover all of a sudden, even if one wants to with all one’s strength and a man does not get rid of a bad moral habit, if You do not destroy that habit with Your sanctifying will power.»

«Your judgement, is correct.»

72.2

«Why do You not do that with everyone?» asks Judas, somewhat resentful.

«But He does, Judas. Why do you speak like that to the Master? Do you not feel you have changed since you have been in contact with Him? Previously, I was a disciple of John the Baptist. But I have found myself completely changed since He said to me: “Come”.» John, who in general very seldom interferes, and never does in the presence of the Master, this time cannot keep quiet. Kind and loving, he lays one hand on Judas’ arm as if to calm him down and he speaks to him anxiously and persuasively. He then realises he has spoken before Jesus, he blushes and says: «Forgive me, Master, I spoke in Your stead, but I wanted… I did not want Judas to grieve You.»

«Yes, John. But he did not grieve Me as My disciple. When he is My disciple, then, if he persists in his way of thinking, he will grieve Me.

72.3

It grieves Me only to notice how much man has been corrupted by Satan who perverts his thoughts. All men, you know! The thoughts of all of you have been misled by him! But the day will come, when you will have the Strength and the Grace of God, you will have Wisdom with His Spirit… you will then have everything to enable you to judge rightly.»

«And will we all judge rightly.»

«No, Judas.»

«But are You referring to us, disciples, or to all men?»

«I refer firstly to you, and to all the others. When the time comes, the Master will nominate His workers and send them all over the world…»

«Are You not doing that already?»

«For the time being, I use you only to say: “The Messiah is here. Come to Him”. Later I will make you capable of preaching in My name, of working miracles in My name…»

«Oh! Also miracles?»

«Yes, on bodies and on souls.»

«Oh! How they will admire us, then!» Judas is overjoyed at the thought.

72.4

«But, then, we shall not be with the Master… and I will always be afraid to do with my human capacity what comes only from God» says John, and he looks thoughtfully and somewhat sadly at Jesus.

«John, if the Master will allow me, I would like to tell you what I think» says Simon.

«Yes, tell John. I want you to advise one another.»

«Do You already know it is advice?»

Jesus smiles and is quiet.

«Well, I tell you, John, that you must not, we must not be afraid. Let us rest upon His wisdom of a holy Master and upon His promise. If He says: “I will send you”, it means that He knows that He can send us without any fear that we may do harm to Him or to ourselves, that is to the cause of God, that is so dear to each of us, like a newly-wed bride. If He promises to dress our intellectual and spiritual misery with the brightness of the power His Father gives Him for us, we must be certain that He will do so and that we will be successful, not by ourselves, but through His mercy. All this will most certainly happen, providing our deeds are free from pride and human ambitions. I think that if we contaminate our mission, which is entirely a spiritual one, with earthly ingredients, then also Christ’s promise will no longer stand. Not because of any inability on His part, but because we shall strangle such ability with the rope of pride.

72.5

I do not know whether I have made myself understood.»

«You have spoken very clearly. I am wrong. But you know… I think that after all, to wish to be admired as the Messiah’s disciples, so close to Him as to deserve to do what He does, is the same as wishing to increase even more the powerful figure of Christ among people. Praise to the Master Who has such disciples, that is what I mean» answers Judas.

«What you say is not entirely wrong. But… see, Judas. I come from a caste which is persecuted because… because what and how the Messiah should be is misunderstood. Yes. If we had waited for Him with the correct vision of His being, we would not have fallen into errors, which are blasphemy against the Truth and a rebellion against the Law of Rome, so that we have been punished both by God and by Rome. We fancied Christ as a conqueror who would free Israel, as a new Maccabaeus, greater than the great Judas… Only that. And why? Because rather than have regard to the interest of God we took care of our own interests: of the fatherland and of the people. Oh! The interests of the fatherland are most certainly sacred. But what are they when compared to the eternal Heavens? In the long hours of persecution, first, and then of isolation, when as a fugitive, I was compelled to hide in the dens of wild beasts, sharing food and a bed with them, to escape Roman power and above all the impeachments of false friends; or when, waiting for death I was already tasting the savour of the sepulchre, in the cave of a leper, how much did I meditate, and how much did I see: I saw the figure of the Messiah… Yours, my humble and good Master, Yours, Master and King of the Spirit, Yours, O Christ, Son of the Father, leading to the Father, and not to the royal palaces of dust, nor to the deities of mud. You… Oh! It is easy for me to follow You… Because, forgive my daring, which avows itself to be correct, because I see You as I thought of You, I recognise You, I recognised You at once. No, it was not a question of meeting You, but of recognising One whom my soul had already met…»

«That is why I called you… and that is why I am taking you with Me, now, in this first journey of Mine in Judaea.

72.6

I want you to complete your recognition… and I want also these, whom age makes less capable of reaching the Truth by means of deep meditation, I want them to know how their Master has come to this hour… You will understand later. There is David’s Tower. The Eastern Gate is near.»

«Are we going out through it?»

«Yes, Judas. We are going to Bethlehem first. Where I was born… You ought to know… to tell the others. That also is part of the knowledge of the Messiah and of the Scriptures. You will find prophecies written in things not as prophecies but as history. Let us go around Herod’s houses…»

«The old, wicked, lustful fox.»

«Do not judge. There is God, Who judges. Let us go along the path through these vegetable gardens. We will stop under the shade of a tree, near some hospitable house, until it cools down. We will then go on our way.»

The vision ends.

Detail

Simon the Zealot, Judas and John have a conversation together about the miracles Jesus works on hearts and how Christ transforms them inwardly (72.1-2). Then the conversation turns to sending the disciples on mission, with John saddened at having to leave the Master, and Judas dreaming of being able to perform miracles. Simon the Zealot humbly gives his point of view and speaks of his own experience as a leper (72.3-4).

GRM 73.8-9

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

Simon asks: «Where are we going now, Master?»

«Come with Me, I know a place.»

«But if You have never been here after You left, how can You know?» asks Judas, still angry.

«I know. It is not a beautiful place. But I have been there before. It is not in Bethlehem… it is a little outside… Let us turn this way.»

Jesus is in front, followed by Simon, then Judas and John is last…

73.9 In the silence, broken only by the rustling of their sandals on the small grains of gravel of the path, someone sobbing can be heard.

«Who is crying?» asks Jesus turning around.

And Judas: «It’s John. He has been frightened.»

«No, I was not frightened. I had already laid my hand on the knife under my belt… Then I remembered the words You keep repeating: “Do not kill, forgive”.»

«Why are you crying, then?» asks Judas.

«Because I suffer seeing that the world does not love Jesus. They do not know Him, and they do not want to know Him. Oh! It is such a pain! As if someone tore my heart with burning thorns. As if I had seen someone treading on my mother or spitting upon my father’s face… Even worse… As if I had seen Roman horses eating in the Holy Ark and resting in the Holy of Holies.»

«Do not cry, My dear John. You shall say it for this present time and for endless times in future: “He was the Light and He came to enlighten darkness; but darkness did not know Him. He came to the world that had been made for Him, but the world did not know Him. He came to His own town, to His domain, but His own people did not accept Him”. Oh! Do not cry like that!»

«That does not happen in Galilee!» says John sighing.

«Well, not even in Judaea» says Judas. «Jerusalem is the capital and three days ago it sang hosannas to You, Messiah! You cannot judge from this place of coarse peasants, shepherds and market gardeners. Also the Galileans, mind you, are not all good. After all, where did Judas, the false Messiah, come from? They said…»

«That is enough, Judas. There is no use in getting angry. I am calm. Be calm, too.»

Detail

jesus has just been chased out of a house in Bethlehem.

GRM 74.2

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

«Do not contradict me if I should say something,… something… which is not true.»

«What do you mean? Why tell lies? I am the Truth and I want no lies in Me or around Me.»

«Oh! I will only tell half lies. I will say that we are all coming back from remote places, from Egypt for instance, and that we are seeking news of dear friends. I will say that we are Judaeans coming back from exile. After all, there is some truth in everything, and I will be speaking, and… one lie more, one lie less…»

«But Judas! Why deceive?»

«Never mind, Master! The world lives on deceit. And at times deceit is a necessity. Well: to make You happy, I will only say that we are coming from far and that we are Judaeans. Which is true for three out of four of us. And you, John, please do not speak at all. You would give yourself away.»

«I will be quiet.»

Detail

Judas wants to know more about the massacre of the Innocents and Anne, since Jesus wants to go there. So he asks Christ to let him tell half lies and asks John to keep quiet.

GRM 77.2-3

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

«By the way. For some days I have been anxious to ask You a question. These people are Your friends and the friends of God, are they not? The angels blessed them with the peace of Heaven, did they not? They have been faithful against all temptations, have they not? Would You explain to me, then, why are they unhappy? And what about Anne? She was killed because she loved You…»

«Are you therefore deducing that to be loved by Me and to love Me brings bad luck?»

«No… but…»

«But you are. I am sorry to see you so closed to the Light and so open to human things. No, never mind John, and you too, Simon. I prefer him to speak. I never reproach. I only want you to open your souls to Me that I may enlighten them. Come here, Judas, listen.

You have an opinion which is common to many people of our times and will be common to man in future. I said: an opinion. I should say: an error. But since you do not do so out of malice, but out of ignorance of the truth, it is not an error, it is only an incorrect opinion, like a child’s. And you are like children, My poor men. And I am here, as a Master, to make adults of you, capable of distinguishing truth from lies, good from bad and what is better from what is good. Listen to Me, therefore.

What is life? It is a period of pause, I would say the limbo of Limbo, that the God Father grants you as trial to establish whether you are good or bad children, after which He will allocate, according to your deeds, a future life without pauses or trials. Now tell Me: would it be fair if a man, simply because he has been granted the rare gift of being in the position of serving God in a special way, also had an everlasting wealth throughout his life? Do you not think that he has already been granted a great deal and may therefore consider himself happy, even if human things are against him? Would it not be unfair if he, who already has the light of divine revelation in his heart and the smile of a clear conscience, should also have worldly honours and wealth? And would it not also be unwise?»

77.3

«Master, I would also say that he would be a desecrator. Why put human joys where You already are? When one has You — and they had You, they are the only rich people in Israel because they have had You for thirty years — one should have nothing else. We do not put human things on the Propitiatory… and the consecrated vase is used only for sacred uses. And these people are consecrated since the day they saw Your smile… and nothing but You is to enter their hearts, which possess You. I wish I was like them!» says Simon.

«But you wasted no time, immediately after you saw the Master and were cured, in getting back your property» Judas replies ironically.

«That is true. I said I would and I did. But do you know why? How can you judge if you do not know the whole situation? My representative was given precise instructions. Now that Simon Zealot has been healed — and his enemies can no longer harm him, neither can they persecute him because he belongs only to Jesus and to no sect: he has Jesus and nothing else — Simon can dispose of his wealth which an honest and faithful servant kept for him. And I, being the owner for a further short time, gave instructions that the estate should be reorganised, so that I would get more money when selling it and I would be able to say… no, I am not telling what.»

«The angels say it for you, Simon, and they are writing it in the eternal book» says Jesus.

Simon looks at Jesus. Their eyes meet: Simon’s express surprise, Jesus’ blessing approval.

Detail

Contextualization: Judas asks Christ a question about the shepherds. Jesus answers and teaches the apostles a lesson: Simon joins in the conversation.

Note: The businessman mentioned by Simon the Zealot is certainly Lazarus (see EMV 84.4-5), who lives very close to Simon's house. If the apostle has recovered his possessions, it is to benefit his elderly servant, Joseph of Bethany (see also EMV 84.4-5).