Interactions with Jesus Christ

«I tell you that above the world there is Heaven, and above the interest of the world there is the cause of God. You must change your ways of thinking. When you learn to do that, you will be perfect.»

«But… and Your Mother?»

«Judas, She is the only one who, according to the way of thinking of the world, should be entitled to recall Me to My duty as a son: that is to My duty to work for Her, and provide for Her material needs, to My duty to assist and comfort Her with My presence. But She does not ask for any of these things. Since She had Me, She knew She would lose Me, to find Me once again in a much wider manner than the small family circle… And since then She has prepared Herself for that.

Her unreserved voluntary donation of Herself to God is nothing new. Her mother offered Her in the Temple before She even smiled at life. And — as She told Me the innumerable times She spoke to Me of Her holy childhood, holding Me close to Her heart in the long winter evenings or in the clear starry summer nights — She gave Herself to God since the dawn of Her life in this world. And She gave Herself even more when She had Me, that She might be where I am, fulfilling the Mission given to Me by God. Everybody will abandon Me at a certain point, perhaps only for a few minutes, but everyone will be overcome by cowardice, and you will think that it would have been better, for your own safety, if you had never known Me. But She, Who understood and knows, She will always be with Me. And you will become Mine, once again, through Her. With the power of Her unshaken, loving faith, She will draw you to Herself and will thus bring you to Me, because I am in My Mother, and She is in Me, and We are in God.

I would like you all to understand that, both you who are My relatives according to the world, and you, friends and children in a supernatural way. Neither you, nor anyone else know Who My Mother is. But if you knew, you would not criticise Her in your hearts stating She is not capable of keeping Me subject to Her, but you would venerate Her as the closest friend of God, the Mighty Woman Who can obtain all graces from the heart of the Eternal Father and from Her beloved Son. I will certainly come to Cana. I want to make Her happy. You will understand better after the wedding.»

• Presentation of Mary as a child in the Temple (aged three)
• Purity of affection between Jesus and Mary
• Spiritual union of Jesus and the Virgin Mary
• Suffering and pain of the Virgin Mary

Then Jesus, smiling, says: «Let us go and make My Mother happy.» And He starts walking across the fields towards the house, with His two companions.

I forgot to mention that it is my impression that Mary is either a relation or a close friend of the bridegroom’s relatives, because She is on familiar terms with them.

When Jesus arrives, the same watchman as before informs the others. The landlord with his son, the bridegroom, and Mary goes down to meet Him, and greets Him respectfully. He then greets the other two and so does the bridegroom. But what I like is the loving and respectful way in which Jesus and Mary exchange their greetings. There are no effusions, but the words «Peace be with You» are pronounced with a look and a smile worth one hundred embraces and one hundred kisses. A kiss trembles on Mary’s lips, but it is not given. She only lays Her little white hand on Jesus’ shoulder and lightly touches a curl of His long hair. The caress of a chaste lover.

• Love of the Virgin Mary
• Purity of affection between Jesus and Mary

52.7 Jesus explains the meaning of the sentence to me.

«That “still”, which is omitted by many translators, is the keyword of the sentence and explains its true meaning.

I was the Son, submissive to My Mother, up to the moment when the will of My Father told Me that the hour had come when I was to be the Master. From the moment My mission started, I was no longer the Son submissive to My Mother, but I was the Servant of God. My moral ties with My Mother were broken. They had turned into higher bonds, all of a spiritual nature. I always called Mary, My Holy “Mother”. Our love suffered no interruptions, neither did it even cool down, on the contrary, it was never so perfect as when I was separated from Her as by a second birth and She gave Me to the world and for the world, as the Messiah and Evangeliser. Her third sublime mystical maternity took place when She bore Me to the cross in the torture of Golgotha, and made Me the Redeemer of the world.

“What is there still between Me and You?” Before I was Yours, only Yours. You gave Me orders, and I obeyed You. I was “subject” to You. Now I belong to My mission.

Did I not say: “He, who lays his hand on the plough and looks back to bid farewell to those who are staying, is not fit for the Kingdom of God”? I had laid My hand on the plough not to cut the ground with the plough, but to open the hearts of men and sow there the word of God. I was to take My hand away from the plough only when they would tear it away to nail it to the Cross and to open with My torturing nail My Father’s heart, out of which forgiveness for mankind was to flow.

That “still”, forgotten by most, meant this: “You were everything for Me, Mother, as long as I was only Jesus of Mary of Nazareth, and You are everything in My spirit; but since I became the expected Messiah, I belong to My Father. Wait for a little while and once My mission is over, I will be, once again, entirely Yours; You will hold Me once again in Your arms, as when I was a little child, and no one will ever again contend with You for Your Son, considered as the disgrace of mankind, that will throw His mortal remains at You, to bring on You the shame of being the mother of a criminal. And afterwards You will have Me once again, triumphant, and finally You will have Me forever when You are triumphant in Heaven. But now I belong to all these men. And I belong to the Father, Who sent Me to them”.

That is the sense of that short but so full of meaning “still”.»

• Cana's wedding
• Defense of the Work
• Dictations of Jesus and the Virgin Mary in the EMV
• Jesus Christ
• Messiah
• Purity of affection between Jesus and Mary
• Redeemer
• Rosary
• Sauveur
• Spiritual motherhood of the Virgin Mary
• The Virgin Mary
• Translations

52.9 Jesus teaches me as follows:

«When I said to the disciples: “Let us go and make My Mother happy”, I had given the sentence a deeper meaning than it seemed. I did not mean the happiness of seeing Me, but the joy of being the initiator of My miraculous activity and the first benefactress of mankind.

Always remember that. My first miracle occurred because of Mary. The very first one. It is a symbol that Mary is the key to miracles. I never refuse My Mother anything and because of Her prayer I bring forward also the time of grace. I know My Mother, the second in goodness after God. I know that to grant you a grace is to make Her happy, because She is All Love. That is why I said, knowing Her: “Let us go and make Her happy”.

Besides, I wanted to make Her power known to the world, together with Mine. Since She was destined to be joined to Me in the flesh, it was fair She should be joined to Me in the power that is shown to the world. Because we were one flesh: I in Her, She around Me, like the petals of a lily round its scented lively pistil; and She was united to Me in sorrow: because we were both on the cross, I with My body, She with Her soul, as a lily is scented because of its corolla and because of the essence extracted from it.

I say to you what I said to the guests: “Thank Mary. It is through Her that you had with you the Master of the miracle and you have My graces, particularly those of forgiveness”.

Rest in peace. We are with you.

• Cana's wedding
• Dictations of Jesus and the Virgin Mary in the EMV
• Intercession of the Virgin Mary
• Miracle
• Miracles of Jesus Christ
• Rosary
• Spiritual union of Jesus and the Virgin Mary
• Suffering and pain of the Virgin Mary
• Thanks to the Virgin Mary
• The Virgin Mary

«Is it you that wanted Me?» He asks the two strangers. «Here I am. Who are you?»

«We heard You the other evening… in the Temple. We looked for You in town. A man, who said he is a relative of Yours, told us You stay here.»

«Why are you looking for Me?»

«To follow You, if You will allow us, because You have words of truth.»

«Follow Me? But do you know where I am going?»

«No, Master, but certainly to glory.»

«Yes. But not to a glory of this world. I am going to a glory which is in Heaven and is conquered by virtue and sacrifice. Why do you want to follow Me?» He asks them again.

«To take part in Your glory.»

«According to Heaven?»

«Yes, according to Heaven.»

«Not everybody is able to go there. Because Mammon lays more snares for those yearning for Heaven than for the others. And only he who has strong willpower can resist. Why follow Me, if to follow Me implies a continuous struggle against the enemy, which is in us, against the hostile world, and against the Enemy who is Satan?»

«Because that is the desire of our souls, which have been conquered by You. You are holy and powerful. We want to be Your friends.»

«Friends!!!» Jesus is silent and sighs. Then He stares at the one who has spoken all the time and who has now removed the mantle-hood from his head, and is bareheaded. He is Judas of Kerioth. «Who are you? You speak better than a man of the people.»

«I am Judas, the son of Simon. I come from Kerioth. But I am of the Temple. I am waiting for and dreaming of the King of the Jews. I heard You speak like a king. I saw Your kingly gestures. Take me with You.»

«Take you? Now? At once? No.»

«Why not, Master?»

«Because it is better to examine ourselves carefully before venturing on very steep roads.»

«Do You not believe I am sincere?»

«You have said it. I believe in your impulsiveness. But I do not believe in your perseverance. Think about it, Judas. I am going away now and I will be back for Pentecost. If you are in the Temple, you will see Me. Examine yourself.

54.4

And who are you?».

«I am another one who saw You. I would like to be with You. But now I am frightened.»

«No. Presumption ruins people. Fear may be an impediment, but it is a help when it originates from humbleness. Do not be afraid. Think about it, too, and when I come back…»

«Master, You are so holy! I am afraid of not being worthy. Nothing else. Because I do not doubt my love…»

«What is your name?»

«Thomas, also known as Didymus.»

«I will remember your name. Go in peace.»

Jesus dismisses them and He goes into the hospitable house for supper.

54.5

The six disciples who are with Him want to know many things.

«Why, Master, why did You treat them differently? Because there was a difference. Both of them had the same impulsiveness…» asks John.

«My friend, also the same impulsiveness may have a different taste and bring about a different effect. They both certainly had the same impulsiveness. But they were not the same in their purposes. And the one who appears less perfect is, in fact, more perfect, because he has no incentive to human glory. He loves Me because he loves Me.»

• Conversations between Jesus and Judas
• Judas de Kérioth (apostle)
• Thomas (apostle)

The children press round Jesus.

«Have You come back?»

«Are You staying here, now?»

«The wheel of my little barrow is broken again.»

«Do You know, Jesus. I have a new baby sister, and they have called her Mary.»

«The schoolmaster told me that I have learned everything and that I am a true son of the Law.»

«Sarah is not here, because her mother is very ill. She cries, because she is afraid.»

«My brother Isaac got married. We had a lovely feast.»

Jesus listens, caresses, praises, promises His help.

• Children's words
• Jesus Christ and children

And they reach the house thus. Mary is already at the door, as a thoughtful boy informed Her.

«Son!»

«Mother!»

They are in each other’s arms. Mary, Who is much smaller than Jesus, is leaning with Her head on Her Son’s chest, clasped in His arms. He kisses Her blond hair. They enter the house.

The disciples, including Judas, remain outside, to leave Jesus and Mary free in their first effusions.

«Jesus! My Son!» Mary’s voice trembles, as if it were choked with sobs.

«Why, Mother, why are You so upset?»

«Oh! Son. They told Me… In the Temple, that day, there were some Galileans and some Nazarenes… They came back… and they told Me… Oh! Son!»

«But You can see, Mother, that I am well. I suffered no harm. God was glorified in His House.»

«Yes, I know, Son of My heart. I know it was like the blare awaking the sleepers. And I am happy for the glory given to God… I am happy that these people of Mine awake to God… I am not reproaching You… I will not be a hindrance to You… I understand You and… and I am happy, but I begot You, Son!…» Mary is still clasped by Jesus’ arms and She has spoken holding Her little open hands pressed against Her Son’s chest, Her head turned up towards Him, Her eyes shining with tears ready to run down Her cheeks. She is now silent, leaning Her head on His chest. She looks like a grey turtle-dove, in Her greyish dress, sheltered by two strong white wings, because Jesus still wears His white tunic and mantle.

«Mother! Poor Mother! Dear Mother!…» Jesus kisses Her again.

• Conversations between Jesus and Mary
• Love of the Virgin Mary
• Purity of affection between Jesus and Mary
• Suffering and pain of the Virgin Mary
• Words of the Virgin Mary

64.3 Some children have rushed around them shouting: «The Master! The Master is here! Here is Jesus, here is Jesus!» and they draw close to Him, Who caresses them while speaking to His disciples.

«Simon, I am going into your house. You will all go and tell the people that I am back and then bring Me the sick ones.»

The disciples go away quickly in different directions. But the whole of Capernaum knows that Jesus has come, thanks to the children who are like bees swarming from the beehive to the various flowers; in our case to the houses, the streets and the squares. They come and go rejoicing, informing their mothers, passers-by, old people sitting in the sun, and they run back to be caressed by Him Who loves them. One of them, a daring boy says: «Speak to us and for us, today, Jesus. You know we love You and we are better than men.»

Jesus smiles at the young psychologist and promises: «I will speak just for you.» And followed by the children, He goes into the house and enters pronouncing His usual greeting of peace: «Peace to this house.»

People crowd into the big room at the back of the house, which is used as a store for nets, ropes, baskets, oars, sails, and provisions. Peter must have put it at Jesus’ disposal, because everything has been piled up in one corner to make room. The lake cannot be seen from here. Only its gently lapping waves can be heard. Instead one can see the low greenish wall of the kitchen garden, with the old vine and the leafy fig-tree. There are people even on the road, as they pass from the room into the kitchen garden and hence onto the road.

64.4 Jesus begins to speak. In the front row, there are five… high-ranking people, who have elbowed their way through the crowd taking advantage of the fear they strike into poor people. Their sumptuous garments and their pride announce them as Pharisees and doctors. But Jesus wants His little friends around Him, a crown of innocent little faces, of bright eyes, of angelical smiles, all looking up at Him. Jesus speaks and while speaking, now and again He caresses the curly head of a child who is sitting at His feet, resting his head on his little arm bent on Jesus’ lap. Jesus is speaking, sitting on a huge pile of baskets and ropes.

«“My Beloved went down to his garden, to the beds of spices, to pasture his flocks in the gardens, and gather lilies… He pastures his flock among the lilies”, says Solomon, the son of David, from whom I descend, I, the Messiah of Israel.

My garden! Which garden is more beautiful and worthy of God than Heaven, where the flowers are the angels created by the Father? And yet, it is not so. The Only Begotten Son of the Father, the Son of man wanted another garden, because it is for the sake of man that I took flesh, without which I would not be able to redeem the faults of the flesh of man. A garden which might have been but little inferior to the heavenly one, if from the earthly Paradise the children of Adam, the children of God, had spread about, like sweet bees from a beehive, to populate the earth with holiness destined entirely for Heaven. But the enemy sowed brambles and thorns in Adam’s heart, and brambles and thorns have overflown from his heart on to the earth. It is no longer a garden, but a wild cruel forest in which fever stagnates and snakes nestle.

And yet the Beloved of the Father still has a garden in this world which is domineered by Mammon. The garden in which He feeds on His celestial food: love and purity; the bed where He picks the flowers dear to Him, flowers not stained with sensuality, greed, pride. These ones. (Jesus caresses as many of the children as He can, patting with His hand the little attentive heads, one big caress that touches them lightly and makes them smile happily). Here are My lilies.

Solomon in all his wealth, did not have a robe more beautiful than the lily that scents the valley, neither did he possess a diadem of a more splendid gracefulness than the one in the pearl chalice of a lily. And yet, for My heart, there is no lily worth one of these. There is no flower-bed, no garden of wealthly people, all cultivated with lilies, that I consider worth only one of these pure, innocent, sincere, simple, little children.

Men and women of Israel! You, great and humble people according to your wealth and position, listen! You are here because you want to know Me and love Me. You must therefore know the first condition to become Mine. I will not speak difficult words. Neither will I give you more difficult examples. I say to you: “Take example from these children”.

Which of you has no children, nephews, or little brothers in their childhood, at home? Are they not a restful comfort, a bond for parents, relatives, friends? Their souls are as pure as a clear dawn, their faces scatter clouds and inspire hope, their caresses dry your tears and give you new strength! Why is there so much power in them, although they are weak, defenceless and still unlearned? Because they have God in themselves, they have strength and wisdom in God. The true wisdom: they know how to love and believe. They know how to believe and want. They know how to live in such love and such faith. Be like them: simple, pure, loving, sincere, faithful.

There is no wise man in Israel greater than the smallest of these children, whose souls belong to God and His Kingdom belongs to them. Blessed by the Father, loved by the Son of the Father, flowers of My garden, may My peace be with you and with whoever will imitate you for My sake.

• Bible - Song of Songs
• Children's words
• Field lily
• Jesus Christ and children
• Preaching Jesus Christ to children
• Preaching of Jesus Christ

66.1 In the afternoon I see Jesus… in the olive-grove… He is sitting on one of the little ground terraces, in His familiar position, His elbows resting on His knees, His forearms forward and His hands joined. It is getting dark and the light becomes fainter and fainter in the thick olive-grove. Jesus is alone. He has taken off His mantle as if He were warm, and His white tunic stands out against the green of the surroundings which are made even darker by the twilight.

A man comes down through the olive-trees. He seems to be looking for something or someone. He is tall and is wearing gay coloured garments: a yellow pink hue that makes his big mantle more showy, adorned as it is with swinging fringes. I cannot see his face very well because of the dim light and the distance, and also because the edge of the mantle is lowered over part of his face. When he sees Jesus he makes a gesture as if to say: «There He is!» and he hastens his step. When he is a few metres away, he greets Him: «Hail, Master!»

Jesus turns round suddenly and looks up, because the man is standing on the next terrace, which is higher up. Jesus looks at him, He is serious, and I would say also sad. The man says once again: «I greet You, Master. I am Judas of Kerioth. Do You not recognise me? Do You not remember?»

«I remember and recognise you. You spoke to Me here with Thomas, last Passover.»

«And You said to me: “Think about it and make up your mind before I come back”. I have made up my mind. I will come.»

«Why are you coming, Judas?» Jesus is really sad.

«Because… The last time I told You why. Because I dream of the Kingdom of Israel and I see You as a king.»

«Is that why you are coming?»

«Yes, it is. I will put myself and everything I possess: capability, acquaintances, friends, fatigue at Your service and at the service of Your mission to rebuild Israel.»

The two are now close, in front of each other, standing, and they stare at each other. Jesus is serious and melancholy. Judas exalted by his dream is smiling, handsome and young, sprightly and ambitious.

«I did not look for you, Judas.»

«I know. But I looked for You. For days and days I have been putting people at the gates to warn me of Your arrival. I thought You would be coming with some followers and that it would therefore be easy to notice You. Instead… I understood that You had been here, because a group of pilgrims was blessing You as You had healed a sick man. But no one could tell me where You were. Then I remembered this place. And I have come. If I had not found You here, I would have resigned myself to not finding You any more…»

«Do you think it is a good thing for you, that you found Me?»

«Yes, because I was looking for You. I was longing for You, I want You.»

«Why? Why did you look for Me?»

«But I have told You, Master!

66.2 Did You not understand?»

«I did understand you. Yes, I did. But I want you also to understand Me before you follow Me. Come. We will talk while walking.» And they start walking, one beside the other, up and down the paths that cross one another in the olive-grove. «You want to follow Me for a human reason, Judas. But I must dissuade you. I have not come for that.»

«But are You not the designated King of the Jews? The one of whom the Prophets spoke? Others have come. But they lacked too many things and they fell like leaves no longer supported by the wind. But You have God with You, in fact You work miracles. Where there is God, the success of the mission is guaranteed.»

«You have spoken the truth. I have God with Me. I am His Word. I was prophesied by the Prophets, promised to the Patriarchs, expected by the people. But why, Israel, have you become so blind and deaf that you are no longer able to read and see, to hear and understand the reality of events? My Kingdom is not of this world, Judas. Allow yourself to be convinced of that. I have come to Israel to bring Light and Glory. But not the light and glory of the earth. I have come to call the just of Israel to the Kingdom. Because it is from Israel that the plant of eternal life is to come, and with Israel it is to be formed, the plant, the sap of which will be the Blood of the Lord, the plant that will spread all over the earth, until the end of time. My first followers will be from Israel. My first confessors will be from Israel. But also My persecutors will be from Israel. Also My executioners will be from Israel. And also My traitor will be from Israel.»

«No, Master. That will never happen. If everyone should betray You, I will remain with You and defend You.»

«You, Judas? And on what do you base your certainty?»

«On my honour as a man.»

«Which is more fragile than a cobweb, Judas. It is God we have to ask for the strength to be honest and faithful. Man!… Man accomplishes human deeds. To accomplish spiritual deeds — and to follow the Messiah with truthfulness and justice is to accomplish a spiritual deed — it is necessary to kill man and make him be born again. Are you capable of so much?»

«Yes, Master. And in any case… Not everybody in Israel will love You. But Israel will not give the Messiah executioners and traitors. Israel has been waiting for You for centuries!»

«I will be given them. Remember the Prophets… Their words… and their end. I am destined to disappoint many. And you are one of them. Judas, you have here in front of you a mild, peaceful poor man, who wishes to remain poor. I have not come to impose Myself and make war. I am not going to contend with the strong and mighty ones for any kingdom or any power. I contend only with Satan for souls and I have come to break the chains of Satan with the fire of My love. I have come to teach mercy, sacrifice, humbleness, continence. I say to you and to everybody: “Do not crave for human wealth, but work for eternal coins”. You are deceiving yourself if you think I am to triumph over Rome and the ruling classes. Herods and Caesars can sleep in peace, while I speak to the crowds. I have not come to snatch anybody’s sceptre,… and My eternal sceptre is already ready, but no one, unless one was love as I am, would like to hold it.

66.3 Go, Judas, and ponder…»

«Are You rejecting me, Master?»

«I reject nobody, because those who reject do not love. But, tell Me, Judas: how would you describe the gesture of a man, who, knowing he is infected by a contagious disease, says to another man who approaches him unaware of the situation, to drink out of his chalice: “Watch what you are doing”? Would you define it hatred or love?»

«I would say it was love, because he does not want the man, unaware of the danger, to ruin his health.»

«Well, define also My gesture likewise.»

«Can I ruin my health coming with You? No, never.»

«You can ruin more than your health, because, consider this carefully, Judas, little will be debited to him who is a murderer, but believes he is doing justice, and he believes it because he does not know the Truth; but a great deal will be debited to him, who knowing the Truth, not only does not follow it, but becomes its enemy.»

«I will not do that. Take me, Master. You cannot refuse me. If You are the Saviour and You see that I am a sinner, a sheep astray, a blind man off the right path, why do You refuse to save me? Take me. I will follow You, even to death…»

«To death! That is true. Then…»

«Then, Master?»

«The future is in God’s bosom. Go. We will meet tomorrow at the Fish Gate.»

«Thank You, Master. The Lord be with You.»

«And may His mercy save you.»

And it all finishes.

• Conversations between Jesus and Judas
• Judas de Kérioth (apostle)

67.5 «Master!» Judas runs towards Him. «Master, You arrived before me. But what is happening?»

«The Rabbi has worked a miracle! Not in Galilee; here! We want Him here!»

«See, Master? The whole of Israel loves You. It is only fair You should stay here, too. Why do You not want to?»

«It is not that I do not want to, Judas. I came here by Myself, that the roughness of the Galilean disciples might not irritate the subtleness of the Judaeans. I want to gather all the sheep of Israel under the sceptre of God.»

«That is why I said to You: “Take me”. I am a Judaean, and I know how do deal with my equals. Will You therefore remain in Jerusalem?»

«For a few days. To wait for a disciple, who is also a Judaean. Then I will go through Judaea…»

«Oh! I will come with You. I will accompany You. You will come to my village. I will take You to my house. Will You come, Master?»

67.6 «I will come… Have you any news of the Baptist, since you are a Judaean and you live with the mighty ones?»

«I know that he is still in jail, but they want to set him free, because the crowds are threatening a revolt, if they do not get their prophet. Do You know him?»

«Yes, I do.»

«Do You like him? What do You think of him?»

«I think no one has been more like Elijah than he is.»

«Do You really consider him the Precursor?»

«Yes, he is. He is the morning star announcing the sun. Blessed are those who through his preaching have prepared themselves for the Sun.»

«John is very severe.»

«Not more with others than he is with himself.»

«That is true. But it is difficult to follow him in his penance. You are more kind, and it is easy to love You.»

«And yet…»

«Yet… what, Master?»

«Yet, as he is hated because of his austerity, I will be hated because of My goodness, because they both preach God, and God is disliked by the wicked. But it is to be thus. As he precedes Me in preaching, so he will precede Me in death. Woe to the killers of Penance and Goodness.»

«Why, Master, have You always such sad forecasts? The crowds love You. You saw that…»

«Because I am sure. Humble people do love Me. But the crowd is not all humble and of humble people. But I am not sad. It is a placid vision of the future and compliance with the will of the Father, Who sent Me for that. And I have come for that. Here we are at the Temple. I am going to the Bel Nidrasc to teach the crowds. If you wish, you may stay.»

«I will stay with You. There in only one thing I wish: to serve You and let You triumph.»

They enter the Temple, and it all ends.

• Conversations between Jesus and Judas
• Judas de Kérioth (apostle)