«You want to follow Me for a human reason, Judas. But I must dissuade you. I have not come for that.»
«But are You not the designated King of the Jews? The one of whom the Prophets spoke? Others have come. But they lacked too many things and they fell like leaves no longer supported by the wind. But You have God with You, in fact You work miracles. Where there is God, the success of the mission is guaranteed.»
«You have spoken the truth. I have God with Me. I am His Word. I was prophesied by the Prophets, promised to the Patriarchs, expected by the people. But why, Israel, have you become so blind and deaf that you are no longer able to read and see, to hear and understand the reality of events? My Kingdom is not of this world, Judas. Allow yourself to be convinced of that. I have come to Israel to bring Light and Glory. But not the light and glory of the earth. I have come to call the just of Israel to the Kingdom. Because it is from Israel that the plant of eternal life is to come, and with Israel it is to be formed, the plant, the sap of which will be the Blood of the Lord, the plant that will spread all over the earth, until the end of time. My first followers will be from Israel. My first confessors will be from Israel. But also My persecutors will be from Israel. Also My executioners will be from Israel. And also My traitor will be from Israel.»
«No, Master. That will never happen. If everyone should betray You, I will remain with You and defend You.»
«You, Judas? And on what do you base your certainty?»
«On my honour as a man.»
«Which is more fragile than a cobweb, Judas. It is God we have to ask for the strength to be honest and faithful. Man!… Man accomplishes human deeds. To accomplish spiritual deeds — and to follow the Messiah with truthfulness and justice is to accomplish a spiritual deed — it is necessary to kill man and make him be born again. Are you capable of so much?»
«Yes, Master. And in any case… Not everybody in Israel will love You. But Israel will not give the Messiah executioners and traitors. Israel has been waiting for You for centuries!»
«I will be given them. Remember the Prophets… Their words… and their end. I am destined to disappoint many. And you are one of them. Judas, you have here in front of you a mild, peaceful poor man, who wishes to remain poor. I have not come to impose Myself and make war. I am not going to contend with the strong and mighty ones for any kingdom or any power. I contend only with Satan for souls and I have come to break the chains of Satan with the fire of My love. I have come to teach mercy, sacrifice, humbleness, continence. I say to you and to everybody: “Do not crave for human wealth, but work for eternal coins”. You are deceiving yourself if you think I am to triumph over Rome and the ruling classes. Herods and Caesars can sleep in peace, while I speak to the crowds. I have not come to snatch anybody’s sceptre,… and My eternal sceptre is already ready, but no one, unless one was love as I am, would like to hold it.»