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Conversations between Jesus and Mary

Theme: The Virgin Mary · Page 1 of 2

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Aa

GRM 44.1-6

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

44.1 I see the interior of the house in Nazareth: a room which looks like a dining room, where the members of the Family take their meals and rest during the day. It is a very small room with a plain rectangular table near a chest, which is set against one of the walls. The chest also serves as a seat. Near the other walls there is a loom and a stool, and there are two more stools with a kind of bookcase on top of which there are oil lamps and other objects. A door is open onto the kitchen garden. It must be almost evening, because only some faint sun-rays are visible in the upper foliage of a tall tree, which is beginning to grow verdant in its first leaves.

Jesus is sitting at the table. He is eating and Mary is serving Him, coming and going from a little door, which leads into the room where there is a fireplace, the light of which can be seen through the half-open door.

Two or three times Jesus tells Mary to sit down… and to eat with Him. But She does not want to, She shakes Her head, smiling sadly. After serving some boiled vegetables as a first course, She brings in some roasted fish and then some rather soft cheese, like fresh cheese, round shaped, like the stones which can be seen in the beds of torrents, and some small dark olives. Some small, flat round loaves of bread – about the size of a plate – are already on the table. The bread is rather dark brown as if the bran had not been removed from the flour. In front of Jesus there is an amphora with water, and a goblet. He is eating in silence, looking at His Mother sadly but lovingly.

It is very obvious that Mary is sad at heart. She comes and goes, purely to occupy Herself. Although it is still daylight, She lights a lamp and puts it near Jesus, and while stretching out Her arm doing so, She subtly caresses Her Son’s head. She then opens a nut-brown haversack, which I think is made of pure hand-woven wool, and therefore water-resistant, She searches inside it, goes out into the little kitchen garden, walks to the far end, where there is a kind of storeroom. She comes out with some rather withered apples which have certainly been preserved from the previous summer, and She puts them into the haversack. She then takes a loaf of bread and a piece of cheese and puts them also into the haversack, although Jesus remarks that He does not want them, as there is already enough food in the satchel.

Mary then comes once again near the table, at the shorter side, on Jesus’ left hand, and looks at Him eating. She looks at Him with love and adoration. Her face is paler than usual and seems aged by pain; Her eyes are ringed and thus seem bigger, an indication of tears already shed. They also seem clearer than normal, as if they were washed by the tears welling up within, ready to stream down Her face: two sorrowful tired eyes.

44.2 Jesus, Who is eating slowly, evidently against His will, only to please His Mother, and is more pensive than usual, lifts His head and looks at Her. Their eyes meet and He notices that Hers are full of tears, and lowers His head to leave Her free to weep. He only takes Her slender hand which She is resting on the edge of the table. He takes it in His own left hand, lifts it to His cheek, rests His cheek on it and then rubs it against His face to feel the caress of the poor trembling little hand, which He kisses on its back with so much love and respect.

I see Mary taking Her free hand, Her left one, to Her mouth, as if to stifle a sob, and She then wipes with Her fingers a big tear, which has fallen from Her eye and is streaming down Her face.

Jesus carries on eating and Mary goes out quickly into the kitchen garden, where it is now almost dark, and She disappears. Jesus leans His left elbow on the table, rests His forehead on His hand, absorbed in thought. He stops eating.

He then listens and gets up. He also goes out into the kitchen garden, and after looking around, He moves towards the right-hand side of the house, and through an opening in the rocky wall, He goes into what I recognise as the carpenter’s workshop. It is now very tidy, without any boards or shavings lying about, and also the fire is out. There is the large work bench, all the tools are laid aside, and there is nothing else.

Mary is weeping, bent over the bench. She looks like a child. Her head is resting on Her folded left arm and She is crying silently, but very grievously. Jesus enters quietly and approaches Her so softly, that She realises He is there only when He lays His hand on Her lowered head, calling Her «Mother!»: in His voice there is the sound of a gentle loving reproach.

Mary lifts Her head and looks at Jesus through a veil of tears, and with both hands joined She leans on His right arm. Jesus wipes Her face with the hem of His large sleeve and then He embraces Her, clasping Her to His heart and kissing Her forehead. Jesus is majestic, He looks more manly than ever, whilst Mary looks more like a little girl, except for Her sorrow-stricken face.

«Come, Mother» Jesus says to Her, and holding Her close to Himself with His right arm, He walks into the kitchen garden, where they sit down on a bench against the wall of the house. The kitchen garden is now silent and dark, apart from the moonlight and the light coming from the house. The night is serene.

44.3 Jesus is speaking to Mary. At first I do not understand the words which are just whispered, and Mary nods Her head in assent. Then I hear: «And get Your relatives to come. Don’t stay here alone. I will be happier, Mother, and You know how I need peace of mind to fulfil My mission. You will not lack My love. I will come quite often and I will inform You in case I cannot come home when I am back in Galilee. Then You will come to Me, Mother. This hour was to come. It began when the Angel appeared to You; it is now striking, and we must live it, Mother, must we not? After we have overcome the trial, we shall have peace and joy. First, we must cross this desert as our Ancestors did, before entering the Promised Land. But the Lord God will help us as He helped them. And He will grant us His help as a spiritual manna to nourish our souls in the difficult moment of the trial. Let us say the Our Father together…» Jesus and Mary stand up and they look up to Heaven: two living victims shining in the darkness.

Jesus, slowly but with a clear voice, says the Lord’s Prayer, Stressing the words. He emphasizes the words: «Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done» spacing the two sentences from the others. He prays with His arms stretched out, not exactly crosswise, but as priests do when they say: «The Lord be with you». Mary’s hands are joined.

44.4 They then go back into the house, and Jesus, Whom I have never seen drink wine, pours some white wine into a goblet from an amphora on the bookcase and He puts it on the table. He then takes Mary by Her hand and makes Her sit beside Him and drink some of the wine, into which He dips a small slice of bread, which He gives Her to eat. His insistence is such that Mary yields. Jesus drinks the remaining wine. He then clasps His Mother to His side and holds Her thus close to His heart. Neither Jesus nor Mary was lying down as was customary in rich banquets in those times, but they were sitting at the table as we do. They are both silent, waiting. Mary caresses Jesus’ right hand and His knees, Jesus pats Mary’s arm and Her head.

44.5 Then Jesus rises, and so does Mary. They embrace and kiss each other very fondly and repeatedly. They always seem to be on the point of separating and parting, but each time Mary embraces Her Creature over and over again. She is Our Lady, but She is still a mother, a mother who must part from Her Son, and is fully aware of the final destination of His departure. Do not tell me that Mary did not suffer! Before I had some slight misgivings, now I do not believe it at all.

Jesus takes His dark blue mantle, puts it on His shoulders, and pulls the hood on to His head. He arranges His haversack across His back, in order to be free when walking. Mary helps Him, and She delays endlessly in sorting His tunic, mantle and hood, caressing Him in the meantime.

Jesus goes towards the door, after making a sign of blessing in the room. Mary follows Him and at the open door they kiss each other once again.

44.6 The road is silent and solitary, white in the moonlight. Jesus starts walking away. He turns round twice to look at His Mother, Who is leaning against the doorpost, paler than the moon’s rays, Her eyes sparkling with silent tears. Jesus moves farther and farther away along the narrow white road. Mary is still weeping against the doorpost. Then Jesus disappears round a bend of the road.

His Evangelical journey, which will end on Golgotha, has just begun. Mary goes into the house shedding tears and closes the door. She also has started Her journey which will take Her to Golgotha. And for us…

Detail

Jesus leaves Nazareth to begin his public life.

GRM 57.2

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

And they reach the house thus. Mary is already at the door, as a thoughtful boy informed Her.

«Son!»

«Mother!»

They are in each other’s arms. Mary, Who is much smaller than Jesus, is leaning with Her head on Her Son’s chest, clasped in His arms. He kisses Her blond hair. They enter the house.

The disciples, including Judas, remain outside, to leave Jesus and Mary free in their first effusions.

«Jesus! My Son!» Mary’s voice trembles, as if it were choked with sobs.

«Why, Mother, why are You so upset?»

«Oh! Son. They told Me… In the Temple, that day, there were some Galileans and some Nazarenes… They came back… and they told Me… Oh! Son!»

«But You can see, Mother, that I am well. I suffered no harm. God was glorified in His House.»

«Yes, I know, Son of My heart. I know it was like the blare awaking the sleepers. And I am happy for the glory given to God… I am happy that these people of Mine awake to God… I am not reproaching You… I will not be a hindrance to You… I understand You and… and I am happy, but I begot You, Son!…» Mary is still clasped by Jesus’ arms and She has spoken holding Her little open hands pressed against Her Son’s chest, Her head turned up towards Him, Her eyes shining with tears ready to run down Her cheeks. She is now silent, leaning Her head on His chest. She looks like a grey turtle-dove, in Her greyish dress, sheltered by two strong white wings, because Jesus still wears His white tunic and mantle.

«Mother! Poor Mother! Dear Mother!…» Jesus kisses Her again.

Detail

Jesus and his disciples arrive in Nazareth and head for the home of the Holy Family.

GRM 198.1-4 · Volume 3

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

Jesus is walking fast with His disciples towards Lazarus’ town, along a shady road which links the Mount of Olives to Bethany. One could say that the green ramifications of the mountain stretch as far as the countryside of Bethany. Jesus is recognised even before entering the town and voluntary messengers run in all directions to inform people of His arrival. Thus Lazarus and Maximinus arrive running from one side, Isaac with Timoneus and Joseph from another, and the third group to arrive is Martha with Marcella, who lifts her veil to bend down and kiss Jesus’ tunic. Immediately after Mary of Alphaeus and Mary Salome reach the spot, they greet the Master and then embrace their sons. Little Jabez, still held by the hand by Jesus, is tossed about by so much rushing and watches everything dumbfounded. John of Endor, feeling like a stranger, withdraws to the end of the group and stands aside. Suddenly, in the lane leading to Simon’s house, Jesus’ Mother comes forward.

Jesus drops Jabez’ hand and gently pushes His friends to one side to hasten towards Her. The well-known words resound in the air, like a solo of love above the whispering of the crowd: «Son!»; «Mother.» They kiss each other and in Mary’s kiss there is the anguish of a mother who has been afraid for a long time and now that the terror, which had seized her, is dissolving, she feels the tiredness of the effort she made and evaluates the risks He has run…

Jesus, Who understands, caresses Her saying: «Beside My angel I had Yours, Mother, watching over Me. No harm could have befallen Me.»

«May the Lord be praised for that. But I suffered so much!»

«I wanted to come sooner, but in order to obey You, I had to come a different way. But it was a good thing, because Your order, Mother, bore good fruit, as usual.»

«It was Your obedience, Son!»

«It was Your wise order, Mother… » They smile at each other like two lovers.

Is it possible that this Woman is the Mother of this Man? Where are the sixteen years of difference in age? The freshness and grace of Mary’s face and of Her virginal body make Her a sister of Her Son, Who is in the fullness of a handsome manliness.

«Are You not asking Me why it bore good fruit?» asks Jesus smiling all the time.

«I know that My Jesus conceals nothing from Me.»

«My dear Mother!» He kisses Her again…

People have kept away a few yards pretending not to be watching the scene. But I bet that there is not one of all the eyes that seem to be looking elsewhere that does not cast sidelong glances at the loving scene.

198.2

The one who is most keen in watching is Jabez, whom Jesus left when He ran to embrace His Mother, and who has been left all alone, because owing to the quick succession of questions and answers, everybody’s attention was diverted from the poor boy… He looks, then bends his head, endeavours to restrain his tears… but he cannot and bursts out weeping, moaning: «Mummy! Mummy!»

Everybody turns around, Jesus and Mary are the first, and everybody endeavours to help or find out who the boy is. Mary of Alphaeus rushes towards him with Peter – they were together – and they both ask: «Why are you crying?»

But before Jabez can catch his breath and speak while shedding so many tears, Mary has run towards him and taken him in Her arms saying: «Yes, my little child, your Mother! Do not cry anymore… and excuse Me if I did not see you before. My friends, here is My little son…» It is obvious that Jesus, in the few seconds approaching the boy, must have said to Her: «He is a little orphan brought with Me.» Mary realised the rest.

The boy is still weeping, but not so disconsolately, and as Mary is holding him in Her arms and kissing him, he ends up by smiling while his face is still wet with tears.

«Let me dry those tears of yours. You must not cry any more! Give Me a kiss…» Jabez was expecting nothing but that and after being caressed by bearded men, he is overjoyed in kissing Mary’s smooth cheek.

198.3

3Jesus has been looking for John of Endor and when He sees him, He goes to get him in his remote corner. And while all the apostles are greeting Mary, Jesus comes towards Her, holding John of Endor by the hand and He says: «This is the other disciple, Mother. Your command gained these two sons for You.»

«It was Your obedience, Son» repeats Mary and She greets the man saying: «Peace to you.»

The man, the coarse restless man of Endor, who has changed so much since that morning when Judas’ whim took Jesus to Endor, completely divests himself of his past while bowing to Mary. I think it is so, because his face, after bowing, looks really serene and truly «at peace».

They all set out towards Simon’s house: Mary with Jabez in Her arms, Jesus holding John of Endor by the hand, and then, around them and behind them, Lazarus and Martha, the apostles with Maximinus, Isaac, Joseph, and Timoneus.

GRM 198.11 · Volume 3

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

…It is late in the night when Jesus can speak to His Mother in peace. They have gone up to the terrace, and sitting one beside the other, hand in hand, they speak and listen to each other.

Jesus is the first to tell the story of the things that happened. Then Mary says: «Son, after Your departure, immediately after, a woman came to Me… She was looking for You. A great misery. And a great redemption. But the poor creature needs to be forgiven by You so that she may persevere in her decision. I entrusted her to Susanna saying that she had been cured by You. That is true. I could have kept her with Me if our house were not like a sea-port, where all the boats come in… and many with evil intentions. And the woman is disgusted with the world by now. Do You want to know who she is?»

«She is a soul. But tell Me her name that I may receive her without any mistake.»

«She is Aglae. The Roman mime and sinner whom You began to save at Hebron, who looked for You and found You at the Clear Water and she has already suffered because of her revived honesty. How much she has suffered!… She told Me everything… How horrible!…»

«Her sin?»

«That… and I would say how much more: how horrible the world is. Oh! My Son! Do not trust the Pharisees in Capernaum! They wanted to use the unhappy creature to harm You. They would have used even her…»

«I know, Mother… Where is Aglae?»

«She will be coming with Susanna before Passover.»

«Very well. I will speak to her. I will be here every evening and with the exception of Passover evening, which I am reserving for the family, I will wait for her. All You need do is tell her to wait, if she comes. It is a great redemption, as You said. And such a spontaneous one! I solemnly tell You that in few hearts My seed took root with the same strength as it did in this unhappy soil. And later Andrew helped it to grow until it was fully formed.»

«She told Me.»

«Mother, what did You feel when that ruin approached You?»

«Disgust and joy. I seemed to be on the brink of a hellish abyss, and at the same time I felt as if I were being carried into the blue sky. You are God indeed, My Son, when You work such miracles!»

They remain silent, under the very bright stars and the pale light of the first quarter of the moon, which is tending to become full. Silent, loving each other and resting in each other’s love.

GRM 199.7-9 · Volume 3

The Gospel as revealed to me

Quotation

… And once again, in the evening, we are in the little house in Bethany. Many have already withdrawn, because they were tired. Peter is walking up and down the path, often looking up to the terrace where Jesus and Mary are sitting talking. John of Endor, instead, is speaking to the Zealot sitting under a pomegranate-tree in full blossom.

Mary has already spoken a great deal because I can hear Jesus say: «Everything You told Me is just and I will bear in mind its justice. And I say that Your advice concerning Annaleah is also right. It is a good sign that the man has accepted it so readily. It is true that the people high up in Jerusalem are dull-minded and envious, I could also say that they are filthy. But in the humble people there are pearls of unknown value. I am glad that Annaleah is happy. She belongs more to Heaven than to the earth, and perhaps the man, who has now understood the concept of the spirit, realises that and he respects her almost religiously. His intention to go elsewhere, so that no human sentiment may upset the pure vow of his girl, proves it.»

«Yes, My Son, Man perceives the perfume of virgins… I remember Joseph, I did not know which words to use. He was not aware of My secret… And yet he helped Me to disclose it with the intuition of a saint. He had perceived the scent of My soul… Also John, see?… How peaceful he is! And everybody seeks him. Even Judas of Kerioth, although… No, Son. Judas has not changed. I know and You know. We do not speak because we do not want to start a war. But even if we do not speak, we know… and even if we do not speak, the others realise… Oh! My Jesus! The younger apostles told Me today, at Gethsemane, the episode at Magdala and the other one of Sabbath morning… Innocent children speak… because they see through the eyes of their angels. But also old people have an idea… They are not wrong. He is an elusive being… Everything is elusive in him… and I am afraid of him and I have on My lips the same words of Benjamin at Magdala and of Marjiam at Gethsemane, because I feel the same disgust for Judas as children do.»

«Not everybody can be John!…»

«I do not demand that! In that case, it would be paradise on the earth. But, see, You told Me about the other John… A man who killed… but I only feel sorry for him. Judas frightens Me.»

«Love him, Mother! Love him, for My sake!»

«Yes, Son, I will. But not even My love will serve. It will only make Me suffer and make him guilty, Oh! Why did he come to You? He upsets everybody, he offends Peter who deserves all respect.»

199.8

«Yes. Peter is very good. I would do anything for him, because he deserves it.»

«If he heard You, he would say with his good frank smile: “Ah! My Lord, that is not true!” And he would be right.»

«Why, Mother?» But Jesus smiles, because He has already understood.

«Because You are not satisfying him by giving him a son. He told Me all his hopes, his desires… and Your refusals.»

«And did he not tell You the reasons justifying them?»

«Yes, he did and he added: “It is true… but I am a man, a poor man. Jesus persists in seeing a great man in me. But I know that I am a poor fellow, and so… he could give me a child. I got married to have them… and I will die without any”. And he said — pointing at the boy who, delighted because of the lovely dress bought by Peter, had kissed him, saying: “Beloved father” — he said: “See, when this little creature, whom only ten days ago I did not know, says that to me, I feel that I become softer than butter and sweeter than honey and I weep, because… every day that goes by, takes this child away from me”.»

Mary becomes silent, watching Jesus, studying His face, waiting for a word… But Jesus has placed His elbow on His knee, resting His head in His hand and is silent, looking at the green expanse of the orchard.

Mary takes His hand and caressing it She says: «Simon has this great desire… When I went with him, he did nothing but speak to Me about it, and his reasons are so good that… I could say nothing to keep him quiet. They are the same reasons that all women and mothers think of. The boy is not strong. If he were as strong as You were… oh! he could have faced the life of a disciple without any fear. But he is so thin!… He is very intelligent, very good… but nothing more. When a little dove is so delicate, you cannot throw it in the air to let it fly very early, as you do with strong ones. The shepherds are good… but they are still men. Children need women. Why do You not leave him with Simon? While You refuse him a son of his own, born of him, I understand the reason. A son is like an anchor. And Simon, who is destined to such a great task, cannot be hindered by anchors. But You must agree that he is to be the “father” of all the sons You will be leaving him. How can he be a father if he has had no training with a child? A father must be sweet. Simon is good, but not sweet. He is impulsive and intolerant. Only a little creature can teach him the fine art of being indulgent to whoever is weak… Consider Simon’s destiny… He is Your successor after all! Oh! I must say that cruel word! But for all the sorrow it causes Me saying it, listen to Me. I would never advise You anything unless it were good. Marjiam… You want to make a perfect disciple of him… But he is only a boy. You… You will be going before he is a man. To whom then can You give him, to complete his formation, better than Simon? Finally, poor Simon, You know how much trouble he has had, with his mother-in-law, also because of You. And yet he has not picked up a tiny part of his past, of his freedom of a year ago, to be left in peace by his mother-in-law, whom not even You have been able to change. And his poor wife? She is longing so much to love and be loved. Her mother… oh! Her husband? A dear domineering man… No affection is ever given to her without exacting too much… Poor woman!… Leave her the boy. Listen, Son. For the time being we will take him with us. I will come to Judaea, too. You will take Me to one of My companions of the Temple, who is almost a relative, because she is of the House of David. She lives at Bethzur. I will be pleased to see her, if she is still alive. Then, when we go back to Galilee, we will give him to Porphirea. When we are near Bethsaida, Peter will take him. When we come here, so far, the boy will stay with her. Ah! You are smiling now! So You are going to please Your Mother. Thank You, My Jesus.»

«Yes, let it be done, as You wish.»

199.9

Jesus stands up and calls out loud: «Simon of Jonas: come here.»

Peter starts and rushes up the steps. «What do You want, Master?»

«Come here, you usurper and corrupter!»

«Me? Why? What have I done, Lord?»

«You have corrupted My Mother. That is why you wanted to be alone. What shall I do with you?»

But Jesus smiles and Peter recovers confidence. «Oh!» he says. «You really frightened me! But now You are laughing… What do You want from me, Master? My life? I have but that, because You have taken everything… But if You want, I will give it to You.»

«I do not want to take anything from you. I want to give you something. But do not take advantage of your victory and do not disclose the secret to the others, you most artful fellow who defeats the Master by means of the weapon of His Mother’s word. You will have the boy, but…»

Jesus can say no more, because Peter, who had knelt down, bounces to his feet and kisses the Master with such delight that he makes the words die on His lips.

«Thank Her, not Me. But remember that this must be of assistance to you, and not an impediment…»

«My Lord, You will not have to repent of the gift… Oh! Mary! May You be always blessed, You are holy and good…» And Peter, who has fallen on his knees again, weeps, kissing Mary’s hand…

Annotation

As for Annalia, I think your advice is right. It's a good sign that the man accepted her so promptly. Samuel her fiancé. Annalia took a vow of virginity, the first of the Consecrated Virgins. Cf. EMV 156.3/5.

Oh, my Jesus! The young people told me today, in Gethsemane, about the Magdala episode and the Sabbath morning. Two children's words about Judas "frightening them": Benjamin of Magdala in EMV 184.7 and Marziam in EMV 196.6.

I too will come to Judea. You will take me there with you to one of my Temple companions - almost a relative, since she is a descendant of David. She lives in Bet-çur. I'd love to see her again, if she's still alive. She is Elisede Bet-çur.

199.9 Jesus stands up and calls out in a loud voice:

"Simon, son of Jonah, come here!"

Peter is startled and hurries up the stairs:

"What do you want, Master?

- Come here, you usurper and corrupter!

- Me? Why? What have I done, Lord?

- You've corrupted my Mother. That's why you wanted to be alone. What should I do to you?"

But Jesus smiles and Peter is reassured.

Oh," he says, "you really scared me! But now you're laughing... What do you want from me, Master?

JESUS PLEASING: This passage has caused controversy among some:

- some couldn't imagine Jesus joking in the way one does with best friends (seeming to accuse them of the antithesis of what they obviously are).

- The others have a partial reading that interprets corruption in isolation as an unworthy and shocking practice.

MARY MEDIATRIX OF ALL GRACES :

On the first point, the joke, it should be noted that Jesus does not use the vulgarity usually associated with this type of joke, but draws a holy lesson from it: Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces. He "evangelizes" our humanity.

As for the other, a reading of the context removes any doubt as to Peter's intention: finding his deepest desire denied, he asks for Mary's help and mediation.